Patrick Køhalmi

Welcome to Jazz Piano Skills. I’m Dr. Bob Lawrence, and it’s time to discover, learn, and play jazz piano!

Today, I have the pleasure of introducing the Jazz Piano Skills community to Mr. Patrick Kohalmi, a multi-talented individual. He's not just a jazz pianist but also a professional sound engineer, bodybuilder, and personal fitness trainer. What's more, he's was my very first international online Jazz Piano Skills student.
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Patrick Køhalmi resides in Denmark and continues to be actively musically involved in studying and performing jazz piano. In addition to his musical passion, He is a world-class bodybuilder who has developed the mental discipline necessary to succeed at a high level in the music and fitness disciplines. Today's conversation explores both disciplines and highlights the not-often-discussed (if ever discussed) common variables and attributes that both disciplines share, and so much more. If you have never thought of music and fitness as being similar disciplines you will after listening to this podcast episode.

So, sit back, grab your favorite beverage, and enjoy this Jazz Piano Skills podcast episode with special guest Patrick Køhalmi.

Transcript

Bob Lawrence  0:31  
Patrick cloud I can't even believe I'm staring at you right now, brother. That's unbelievable.

Patrick Køhalmi  0:40  
Yeah,

Bob Lawrence  0:42  
my my very first, my very first without doubt my very first international online jazz piano skills student. Yeah, no question about it. Right. Patrick, when was that man that was like, we were just talking before we went we before we started recording, it was like beef. It was way before COVID. I mean, it was way before we were doing online. You and I were doing online lessons before online lessons became cool. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Patrick Køhalmi  1:14  
Yes, yes. I believe it was in 2017. Or 18.

Bob Lawrence  1:19  
Yeah, somewhere back in there. Right.

Patrick Køhalmi  1:22  
Yeah. I think I was 36 years old at that time. And

Bob Lawrence  1:25  
you're and just so the listeners know, you're in Denmark. You're still in Denmark, man. Oh, yes. You're still in Denmark.

Patrick Køhalmi  1:32  
Nothing changed.

Bob Lawrence  1:37  
You look exactly the same brother. You look exactly.

Patrick Køhalmi  1:39  
You too.

Bob Lawrence  1:40  
Thank you.

Thank you. And I appreciate that. Well, I guess we're both lying to each other, but that's okay.

Patrick Køhalmi  1:49  
Yeah, well, we need encouragement. Yes,

Bob Lawrence  1:52  
that's right. Even even if it means lying to one another. We're gonna do Yeah.

Patrick Køhalmi  1:59  
Yeah, exactly.

Bob Lawrence  2:00  
So man, it's a thrill, you know, because this is like rolling back time. This is rolling back time getting you to come on jazz piano skills. And we'll get to talk about your musical journey and how you got into jazz and I mean, you've you've, you've had quite a musical background, and quite a musical experience. With all your dog experience and recording and, and the Jazz Studies. We'll get into that here a little a little bit later. But you know what I want to do, Patrick, in this for my benefit as much as it is for the listeners. I want you to kind of take us back to your childhood. You know, what was that? Like? I don't know if I remember correctly. You didn't grow up in Denmark, though. You grew up? No. In Hungary in Hungary, okay. Then then you moved. So why don't you give us your background how you got where you are today and share all the good stuff man. All the other you know your your big time bodybuilder, weightlifter, all that kind of You've inspired me man. I'm trying to get in shape because of you so anyway. Yeah, so I

Patrick Køhalmi  3:08  
see all the your body I mean, I love a lot of happen. Yes. Look at your chest and arm.

Bob Lawrence  3:20  
Oh my God. Now you're really lying, man. But keep going, man. I like it. I like I like that. I like the direction you're heading. I liked the path. You're

Patrick Køhalmi  3:31  
used to your suit. How you have Under Armour t shirt on so

Bob Lawrence  3:35  
I know we've gone casual. Yeah, yeah, we've gone cash it cold actually

Patrick Køhalmi  3:39  
surprised that you have a piano in the background and not a benchpress.

Bob Lawrence  3:47  
That's what I should have done. I should have logged on from my garage and my robe rack and all that kind of stuff. You know what? We're going to talk about all that stuff. A bit. So all right, man, I'm gonna shut up. I'm turning the microphone over to you, Phyllis, fill us in on your life, brother. All

Patrick Køhalmi  4:03  
right. Well, I was born in Hungary in 9082. And I went to elementary school in Hungary from the age six to nine. And you know, the funny thing is that my parents in the beginning wanted me to go to a music school in Hungary. You had you could choose an elementary school where they were focusing on music. Right, so. So my parents tried this. I had absolutely no interest in music at all. So I don't know why my parents wants to be to do this.

Bob Lawrence  4:48  
What did your parents play? Were you were your parents musicians. And

Patrick Køhalmi  4:52  
from my father's side, yes. My father's sister. She was actually a great piano player. Oh, classical piano player. Okay. Unfortunately, she passed away but she was living in, in Los Angeles. Oh, wow. She moved to Los Angeles. Yeah. In early age. And and yeah, so my father could also play a little piano. And yeah, from that side. Oh, and also my my grandmother's, she could sing. Okay. Yeah.

Bob Lawrence  5:28  
So there's musical genes floating around in your in your family and your background? Yeah. From my father's side. Yeah, indeed. Yeah. Yeah. And so that may be why they were kind of pushing the music angle, which is, which is really kind of cool. Right? I think a lot of people in the US don't realize that. That's pretty common, right? In Europe, and we're the school where you have a concentration at a very young age in a discipline like music or gymnastics, or some kind of discipline, right? Yeah. So did you did you end up starting then? Did you start the music school at that young age?

Patrick Køhalmi  6:05  
No, they said that I had absolutely no talent. So that was neat.

Bob Lawrence  6:15  
Wait a minute. How old are you at that time?

Patrick Køhalmi  6:17  
Like five

Bob Lawrence  6:22  
so they, they took a look at you at five at the ripe age of five. Yeah, listen to you do something and said did you have no, they told your parents no musical talent? We got to move on to something else.

Patrick Køhalmi  6:36  
Yeah, they wanted me to sing a song. And I did

I guess it wasn't good enough.

Bob Lawrence  6:47  
So see, now that's the difference, man. That's the difference between the US and where you grew up? Where you grew grew up? They you sang a song and at the end of the song did you even get to the end of the song?

Patrick Køhalmi  7:01  
I think so. I was so shy okay. So shy you know that i My voice was like vibrating and shaking you know, like

Bob Lawrence  7:11  
a vibrato Okay, so but so with this the difference right? Where you were you grew up. They listened to you sing one song at five and told you you had no musical talent? Yeah, we here in the US, you can be 85 with no talent. We'll keep we'll take we'll keep telling you. Hey, man. Just keep trying. Just keep going. You got time. You got plenty?

Patrick Køhalmi  7:44  
Yeah, so I was like, I felt like I was turned down.

Bob Lawrence  7:50  
Music musically rejected at five years old.

Patrick Køhalmi  7:54  
Yeah, maybe. So I went to our normal school.

Bob Lawrence  8:03  
Normal School with people with no talent.

Patrick Køhalmi  8:07  
Something like that. Yeah, you know, and I was, yeah, I was in elementary school in Hungary for four years. And then we moved to Denmark, because my sister moved. My sister is like, 15 years older than me. And she moved to Denmark. And then I moved to Denmark, also with her. Yeah. And her husband was a musician. He was mainly playing guitar, but he could also play. Okay,

Bob Lawrence  8:40  
when we're gonna back up a second, we want to make sure I understand this. Your sister moved to Denmark. And you moved with her? Yeah. Did your mom and dad go?

Patrick Køhalmi  8:49  
Well, yes. Oh, okay. Okay. My sister was the main reason. Oh, I Okay. My parents and I moved to Denmark.

Bob Lawrence  8:58  
Okay. Yeah, for some reason, I was thinking that your sister moved to Denmark and your parents said, hey, you know what you're going to and it's

Patrick Køhalmi  9:07  
not exactly not exactly but.

Bob Lawrence  9:11  
So, okay, so go to Denmark. So go on with your guitar.

Patrick Køhalmi  9:17  
Yeah. And so, my sister's husband had a piano, he had a music studio. Okay, you know, and so I don't know why. But, yeah, he played some piano, you know, and I was kind of motivated to, to try and he showed me a few songs on the piano and, and like, how to press the keys. I mean, really beginner stuff. But what he showed me on the piano, it was like, it was easy. I mean, I just had it under my fingers, you know? And I think He was the one who actually, like noticed, recognize that I have a talent. So he taught me a few songs, you know, and not not that much musical theory, but a few songs. And my father bought me a piano. Or actually, it was our keyboard, you know, like, almost a toy, but Right, it was, it was it was great for a beginner. Right, just to see where it's going. Where it's going, you know? Right, right. And yeah, I was I was really motivated, you know, and I reached the point where this toy piano was just not enough. Right. I wanted to, I wanted the whole thing, you know, piano, right. Yeah. Right. So that was the next investment.

Bob Lawrence  10:55  
And how old are you at this time, Patrick?

Patrick Køhalmi  10:58  
I was like, I think I was 1413 or 14 years old. Yeah.

Bob Lawrence  11:04  
Great. Great age. Right. Yeah, it gets serious about it. Yeah.

Patrick Køhalmi  11:09  
Yeah. And at this time, I was still playing on my own. It was like, I just tried to discover everything on my own on the piano, because I actually enjoyed it. Just to see where it's going, right. Without any theory or stuff. I just enjoyed the sound of the piano. So at the age of 15, I guess. My parents found our music teacher for me. But you know, it's a music teacher from elementary school. It's not to this Danish music teachers. But what? But what you what you learn is just mainly, it's mainly the notes music sheets. Yeah, right. Yeah, reading music, and it's just easy songs, like, free notes, you know, and dadadada. And that's it. Yeah. Right. But that's still no theory. Right? Only only the songs and, and the motivation, I remember that my motivation was just going down. Because I don't want to play these silly songs. Right. Right. Yeah. And so I went to this music teacher for like, half year. And okay, it was beneficial to learn the notes that sheets. And but I, I, I was wanting more, there was something missing. You know, at that time, I had no idea what it was. Right. Right. So I keep pushing it, you know?

Bob Lawrence  12:57  
And so what kind of music were you listening to, at that time outside of lessons? I'm curious, like, outside the lessons, Were there particular groups of groups, you were listening to individuals you're listening to?

Patrick Køhalmi  13:10  
It was actually reached out Clayderman listening to at that time, he was my biggest motivation. Okay, you know, and the first song, I say, like this, the first real song that I learned was the song called ballet, or ugly, or French song. And I loved it, people love it, you know, and it was rejected by them as first hit, as I remember. It's, it's an easy song, but great song, you know. And the funny thing is that, I think I was like, 16 years old, or maybe 18. When I, I learned this song. And no matter if, like, no matter how long time goes, if I haven't played the piano for like, a year or two, not that it's happening, but Right, right. Is it the case? I still remember the song. Yes. It's in my

Bob Lawrence  14:16  
it's embedded in you. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But the songs that

Patrick Køhalmi  14:20  
I have learned, you know, later, ah, it's just

Bob Lawrence  14:25  
I just forgetting it. Yeah. So they were there. Here you are then at 1516 in a setting and music setting where you're reading music, more kind of classical, simple classical music, you know, and, as you said, your motivation is is taking a nosedive? Because you were you were wanting to get into more contemporary styles of approaching the instrument and playing you didn't like you said, you're 15 So you don't know what that is. Exactly. You're gonna like how how do I how do I Get on that path. How do I get on that road? I don't know. But I know the row that they have me on this, ain't it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right.

Patrick Køhalmi  15:08  
And as a child, I was really craving or hungry for more. And also, the songs that I was listening. It was songs from the 60s 70s 80s. You know, it was like, I wanted to catch up with the past before moving on to the current songs. Yeah. And I really liked great

Bob Lawrence  15:32  
expression. That's a great expression, by the way, catch up with the pass in order to move on. Right. Got it. Yeah, that's fantastic, man.

Patrick Køhalmi  15:42  
Yeah, and I love the old songs. I mean, those hits are evergreen. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and were

Bob Lawrence  15:49  
you listening to any? I'm just curious. Were you listening to that time any like, you know, like Miles Davis or Herbie Hancock, any of that stuff, you know? No, not

Patrick Køhalmi  16:00  
at all. I did. Yes. Was a way too much for me.

Bob Lawrence  16:07  
All Time. Right, right. Okay, God. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right. So it's pretty normal.

Patrick Køhalmi  16:13  
Yeah, I couldn't understand it. Right, you know, and I remember that. When I went to college, I was 1819 years old. And my English teacher showed us the class or movie. The movie 10. Oh, Dudley Moore. You know, and there's the parts.

Bob Lawrence  16:38  
I was. Yeah, that's right. Dudley Moore. I really wasn't focusing on Dudley Moore in that movie. But that's I know. But that's another that's another. That's another podcast.

Patrick Køhalmi  16:52  
That's another part of the movie. That's also a good one.

Bob Lawrence  16:57  
Sorry, I got distracted there for a sec. So go on. So

Patrick Køhalmi  17:03  
yeah. So back to the other subject. So more thank piano. And I remember that my English teacher was the really how you say like, excited about the sport. Yeah. And, and who, by the way,

Bob Lawrence  17:21  
Dudley Moore was a very good pianist. Man. He was a lot of people. A lot of people don't know that about him. Right. Jazz. Jazz. Yeah. Yeah,

Patrick Køhalmi  17:30  
true. And at that time, I didn't know either. Right. So. So yeah, I thought that that'd be more of us. Just movie star. And that's it. Right? And I remember that. Yeah. My English teacher was excited about this song, you know, and I was like, That's too much. Nobody wants to listen to this, you know. And years later, like, 15 years later, I heard the song again, and I was like, lonely. Yeah. Yeah. And I wanted to learn that song. Yeah. And I actually did. It was a difficult part. Yeah, but a really nice song. Yeah. But but it's like you have to get there. Right? You have to, you have to build up your musical knowledge. Oh, you have to understand music? Most

Bob Lawrence  18:27  
Most definitely. Right. You know, I remember the very first jazz pianist ever played for me. My teacher put on Oscar Peterson and I must have looked like a deer in headlights, headlights, because I was just staring at the, you know, the turntable. I was staring at the turntable listening to this jazz pianist. And I remember him about, you know, a minute into it said, Okay, this might be a little too much. Let's, let's listen to some other jazz pianists. And you're right, you have to, you have to your journey has to take you to, to these artists, these, especially in jazz, like you said, it's it can be way overwhelming and too much.

Patrick Køhalmi  19:10  
Yes, yes. Exactly. And at that time, you know, that I was 18. And my big motivation was Richard Clayderman. You know, the songs that he played, I also learned, like, I wanted to learn all these songs that he was playing and I had a lot of musical sheets and stuff. But as I moved on, I mean, as the years passed, which equate them and became more like, too easy. Yeah, and the strikes become too mechanical. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was like, there was not enough feeling in it. Right, right. And it's again Up to this Richard clay them and because he's a great piano Yeah, right, right. But it's easy. So yeah.

Bob Lawrence  20:05  
So you were changing your your development, your growth, your musical tastes evolve me right? Yeah, this is this is a great sign.

Patrick Køhalmi  20:15  
Yeah, yeah. And yeah and and later on I began to listen to Oscar Peterson but it was that the more in the beginning. And when I read about that, the more I read that Oscar Peterson was Dudley Morris inspiration. There

Bob Lawrence  20:35  
you go. That's how it happens. Right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's how it happens. So the funny

Patrick Køhalmi  20:39  
thing is that if you listen to Dudley Moore, you listen to all his songs, you will actually find some elements in there. Oh, no doubt. That's from us to

Bob Lawrence  20:49  
Pete. Oh, absolutely. No doubt about it. Right. The influence. You'll hear the silence. Yeah.

Patrick Køhalmi  20:56  
That's fantastic. But it's still not the most style. I mean, he has his own style.

Bob Lawrence  21:01  
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So okay, so now you're a young, coming into young adulthood. And I know that music has always been a huge, gigantic part of your life and continues to be a huge, gigantic part of your life. I mean, look at your studio behind you, for heaven's sakes, man, you got more gear than I have. I'm sitting here drooling over your gear that you have in the background here. But, but somewhere along the way, Patrick, well, you're you became this big time body builder and in muscle guru. So what how did this all happen? Because you know what? I want to I want to pull these two disciplines together, because quite honestly, they're very similar, which a lot of people may not know. But we're going to talk about that. So how did the Alright, okay, was the bodybuilding stuff going on at this time? Was it 15 at this young age? Were you kind of like an Arnold Schwarzenegger kind of, you know, young kid? Well,

Patrick Køhalmi  22:04  
you know, anything already at an early age, like I was seven or eight years old, I saw the movie rocky with Sylvester Stallone. Yes, sir. Yeah, and I wanted to become a boxer. Okay. But my parents said that this was a bad idea. So no tail.

Bob Lawrence  22:29  
Boxing either.

Patrick Køhalmi  22:32  
Yeah. So but, so the fact is that I saw the movie, and it moved me. But you just have two paths to get there, you know, to like, my brother was also influenced, inspired by Rocky. Okay. And, and he had a smaller gym, back in the garage. Okay. And, and yeah, and that's where it all began at that time, you know? So, he showed me how to lift weights and stuff. And so yeah, I I got spice. Yeah. Yeah. And

Bob Lawrence  23:16  
you've been doing that. And you've been doing that ever since. Right? I mean, your whole life. I mean, I've seen pictures of you. You're kind of like ridiculous when you're all when you're all pumped up. You know, we're here to pump you up. I mean, you're, you're a beast, man.

Patrick Køhalmi  23:31  
Well, thank you. Right. It's just an illusion. Yeah. And, but to be honest, the first thing I began with was running. Okay. And it was still in elementary school because I was actually a chubby guy. You know, so I had to lose some weight. And I did that by running. And when I went to college, there was so much homework and projects and stuff, you know, that I had to pause a little bit. So I gained some weight. I became chubby. So but when the college was over, I started with the gym. Like for real? Running and bodybuilding. Yeah, yeah. But you know, it's it's bodybuilding or weightlifting. It's like a combo of these two, because I had never had any intention of compete going to competition and stuff. I just did it for my own for my own good for health reason. Right. Right. Right. So and it's, you know, new sick and, and, and fitness, bodybuilding. It's like to find a balance with music you are training your your brain you know, and and with the sport with fitness, you are training your body. So and this is How I got the balance?

Bob Lawrence  25:02  
Yeah, nice. But you know what, it's very interesting, right? Because, you know, since I've met you, you know, I can't, and I've come to the game late with regards to going like, Man, I should maybe pay some attention to fitness, right? Because I guess when you get my age and the road ahead of you is shorter than the road behind you, you realize that man, I better do something to kind of maybe prolong longevity, you know, to promote longevity, right? So, I started, you know, at that COVID time, you know, start getting into fitness and exercising and what I found Patrick, and you, not you, and I've gone back and forth on this. Over the years as well, that once I started doing fitness, you know, it was weird, because I started saying to myself, wait a minute. I've been here before. I know, I know what this is about it. And what I mean by that is the discipline that's involved in learning how to play a musical instrument at a high level. And the discipline that's involved at fitness and training at a high level, really, are very much the same in that, you know, if you go to the gym, and you lift weights incorrectly for eight hours a day, at the end of the day, you're not healthier, you're not stronger, you're not more flexible. In fact, you may be worse off at the end of the day. And likewise, with music with a piano, you could sit at the piano and practice piano eight hours a day. And if you do it wrong for eight hours a day, you practice on the wrong you practice the wrong things in the wrong way. You're not a better pianist, at the end of eight hours, you're just not. And so if somebody's jumping into the fitness world, and a year later they say to themselves, man, I'm, I'm working out every day. And here I am a year later. I'm, I'm no, I'm no better than I was a year ago. In fact, I may be even worse physical shape than I was a year ago. I mean, one would have to say, Hey, man, you might want to think about what you're doing and how you're doing it. Because it just doesn't make sense that a year later, you know, it's no different than if somebody came in and said, Hey, I've been practicing the piano, you know, eight hours a day for the last year, and I'm still no better, I'm going like, Well, that should be that should be an indicator that the skills, the types of things that you're doing, and the way in which you're doing it aren't aren't paying dividends for you. Right? And yeah, and don't you find that the discipline involved? You know, first you got to learn what it is that you should be doing it? What it is that you should be doing? Number two, how should you be doing it? Yes, right. And number three, how do you prevent running down blind alleys? How do I prevent myself from running down blind alleys, and start doing different things that are going to actually take me away from the objective from the goal that I have have set in place? What are your thoughts on all this?

Patrick Køhalmi  28:09  
I, I remember when you started working out during COVID. And and there is a lot of similarity between the two. I could feel this too. When I started at your lesson, the approach how to how to learn jazz piano, right? Music Theory, right? Yeah, so the basics are very important in both disciplines.

Bob Lawrence  28:39  
Right? And you have to, you have to know it first, do you not have to understand it first, conceptually, so that you can execute it physically. You know, like, if you go to if you go to lift weights, don't you really have to understand why you're lifting the way you're lifting, how you're lifting, in what the benefit is going to be when you do before you as opposed to just grabbing some weights and going crazy and hoping something happens.

Patrick Køhalmi  29:07  
Yeah, well, when you understand what you're actually doing, it's like the men mentality, that the mental, it's like, you have a much better connection to your muscles, like, you know, what you're doing and why you're doing and all the processes that's going through your body. Right. And, and also the nutrition that your body needs. I mean, when you know, all these kinds of stuff. It's, it's a whole new level, you know, and, and, and it's just, you can actually feel it, you know, that this is actually working. Yeah. And you don't have to, in the beginning, I was at the gym for three hours and working out. You know, and, and later on, I learned that that's not very beneficial. It's better to spend like one or one and a half hour at the gym and be productive. Right? For for that time. With that said, at a very young age, your hormones are so high so crazy, that you can actually get results of three hours working out also. Right, right. Right. But, but that doesn't mean that you should do it. Right.

Bob Lawrence  30:30  
You know, you mentioned something that's really, you know, nutrition going along with the fitness stuff, right? Yeah, the Twitter nutrition to fitness is like paper practice, to jazz piano. Right? In other words, you know, I tell people all the time, the best practicing that you do, should be away from the instrument. The next practicing that you do should be away from the instrument. That's the conceptual that's the paper print the good one, right? And the same thing with the fitness stuff, the best fitness that you could do is away from the gym. Exactly. With that with the nutrition, right? Yes,

Patrick Køhalmi  31:09  
yeah. And they say that, like 80% is happening in the kitchen. Right? Only 20% in the gym. Right?

Bob Lawrence  31:17  
Right. That's right. And that's why that's why that's why I push paper practice so heavily in jazz piano skills, that you, you know, spending time writing out your scales, spending time writing out your cords, spending that time writing out inverted shapes, spending time writing out arpeggios, you know, mapping out these various skill sets at the kitchen table, right? Or sitting on the sofa away from the instrument allow you to process that, you know, like I always say, you can't, you should never ever try to ascertain process and apply knowledge simultaneously. That's a formula for disaster. Listen to that, again, ascertain process and apply simultaneously. Terrible, right? So I'm always saying ascertain knowledge, get it, find out what you need to know. to process it spend time paper practicing mapping it out, thinking it through getting a clear conceptual understanding of it. And then three, apply it play, right. Yes, yes, the same thing would be the same thing would be applicable to the fitness world. Yeah,

Patrick Køhalmi  32:35  
exactly. And this reminds me of the time when I was 20 years old 2022 and then started doing fitness or bodybuilding. You know, I, I ordered a bought the book of orange Schwarzenegger, the enciclopedia he had, like, a, really like a book of this size, you know, with six or seven or eight, ad hundreds pictures, pages, you know? And, and I was so how to how you say this, like, so into it, that I couldn't stop reading. And in like two or three weeks, I was fooled the whole book. Because everything that was in the book is it just makes sense, you know, right. And I was like, like,

Bob Lawrence  33:31  
really? devouring it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick Køhalmi  33:36  
And, you know, I was already in the gym lifting. But reading the book gave me a much better understanding of what I was doing. Yeah.

Bob Lawrence  33:44  
You know, I don't know if you remember this or not. But when we first connected, and we started lessons. There you are in Denmark, I'm here in Dallas, and we connect. And I find out about your bodybuilding and weightlifting. And I don't know if you remember this or not. I actually said to you, because I, I knew that if you had the discipline to do what you what you did physically. I actually said to you, Patrick, you already you already possessed the discipline needed to become a great jazz pianist. Yeah, it's already you already have him in because you if you didn't have, if you didn't have that kind of discipline, that mental and execution, physical discipline that you have to implement to succeed at, say bodybuilding, then it's not going to be there for music if you just start. So when we first met, you had already proven to me your physical presence already proved to me that Hey, bro, you got what it takes to be a great jazz pianist. Don't listen to your first grade teachers, the old the old hag didn't know what she was talking

Patrick Køhalmi  35:04  
I would like actually, I would like to meet them and have a talk,

Bob Lawrence  35:10  
right a bit you would, they'd see you and run the other direction, bro. So, so okay, that's really cool. It's really fascinating. So we could talk all day about because I love doing that I love taking two disciplines. Yeah. And putting them side by side. I always love doing that.

Patrick Køhalmi  35:29  
And I also remember that when we started dresses, I was I was doing the practice. On paper, like, I made a workout plan for music.

Bob Lawrence  35:43  
I remember I remember. Yeah.

Patrick Køhalmi  35:46  
For everyday, like, how long time? How many minutes? I have to practice scales? And

Bob Lawrence  35:53  
yeah, so you're just like a workout?

Patrick Køhalmi  35:57  
Yes, yes, I see. And the first

Bob Lawrence  36:00  
word, yep. The discipline. Yeah. Yeah. So let's, let's talk and let's talk about that a little bit. Okay. Let's talk about your venture into jazz studies. You know, I want you to share with some of the, with the jazz piano skills listeners, I went out what, what were some of the things that you found? You know, challenging about jumping into the world of jazz? What were some of the things that you find to be very challenging? And then, and then we'll move on from there to Well, what did you do to kind of meet that challenge? So let's just talk about, let's just talk about some of the things that have been that, as you recall, jumping into the jazz world that you found initially to be well, this is like, this is intense?

Patrick Køhalmi  36:53  
Well, first of all, I remember that I have absolutely no expectations. So I remember that this was Eugene.

Bob Lawrence  37:07  
Right? Oh, one of our faculty. Yeah, one of our faculty

Patrick Køhalmi  37:10  
who told me to get in touch with you. And so I did. And I had no expectations. But I remember the first lesson we had. And I realized, I remember that. Before that time, you know, I thought that I actually had an okay, a good knowledge about music and music theory. But then I met you and I realized that I had absolutely no, no idea what I was doing. So and what I forgot to tell was that even at a young age, I was very interested in writing songs, like coming up with new stuff. And I wrote a few songs already at a young age, on only piano, or also with other instruments, like electronic music, you know. But then I got into jazz piano when we had our lessons. And then I realized that the musical theory that Jess, it's super beneficial if you want to be creative. And you want to write songs. Really? Sorry, there's a whole new word for me.

Bob Lawrence  38:40  
Yeah. Because because the, you know, jumping into the world of harmonic harmonic structures, chords, harmonic movement, progressions, how melody is derived from or flows from those harmonic structures from those harmonic progressions that lead you to become a better songwriter, right? Until you really kind of get into that, then songwriting, if you don't have a really good handle on that composing, or songwriting is kind of like just throwing darts at the dartboard hoping that hit the bullseye once in a while, which you never do. You never even look at the bullseye right. So I remember when we started, I think the big thing that was I remember was that, and this is very common. So you're not alone in this is that music was like this big, kind of like, this big black hole that you're jumping into, right that that in other words, that there was never really, if you're going to study music, you'd have to just get used to knowing that all your questions were open ended. In other words, How many chords are there? Oh, as many as you want, how many scales are there? Oh, a millions, gazillions. You know, how many notes are there? I can't count on that everything is just this open ended. knowledge based. That that's overwhelming. Right? Yeah.

Patrick Køhalmi  40:20  
It's like unlimited or? Yeah. Yeah.

Bob Lawrence  40:23  
Yeah. And, and that, that, that nothing will cause stagnation. More than that thinking that there's unlimited chords unlimited. Unlimited scales Unlimited. No, everything's Unlimited, you know, that nothing will cause stagnation greater than that. So I think with you, I remember the very first thing that we did in our lessons was like, wait, we wait, we wait, wait a minute. Well, let's answer these questions. Let's, you know, how many, how many notes do we have in music? How many chords do we have in music? What scales are coming from this tuning system that we use? You know?

Patrick Køhalmi  40:59  
Yeah,

Bob Lawrence  41:00  
I think that's so important. Because you can go out and get a book of scales that have all kinds of scales. But the question should always be, what do we actually use those? Right, yeah. Do use those, you know, and I tell the story all the time that I remember, in college, I went into the practice room, and I with a ream of paper, and I said, I'm going to write out every single way, every single way that you could voice a major chord every single way. Yeah, so I spent the whole day writing out all kinds of possibilities of voice in a major chord. And I took them to really, I took I took my stack of paper to an accomplished jazz musician, pianist, and I said, I handed the stack to him. And he said, he's looking, he's thumbing through it, he goes, What is this? The dog confused? What is this? I said, What is this? What do you mean, what is this? I said, you hold in your hand, every conceivable possible way in the world to play the voice, a major chord, that's what you have in your hand. You know, he said to me, he took a cigar out of the mouth, blew smoke, and he looked at me because, you know, we only use a couple, right? I went hunt wide.

All that worked out all that work down the drain, right? So if you remember what we did right away, is like, hey, let's answer these questions. And let's deal with the data that we need to deal with. Yeah, there's all kinds of information floating out there. But let's deal with the data that we actually need to deal with. Remember, remember? Yeah,

Patrick Køhalmi  42:41  
yeah. Yeah. No, I realized that music was not on. Infinite thing, right. Yeah, it's only Chuck Norris who can count to infinite.

Bob Lawrence  42:56  
That's hilarious. Yeah. So so that I would have to say that's probably looking back. I think that was one of your biggest challenges. Would you not agree is getting wrapping your mind around waiting? But there are and there are specific answer to answers to your questions.

Patrick Køhalmi  43:14  
Yeah. Okay. Indeed. So, yeah, there's a lot of stuff that I didn't know about. And, and realizing this, like, like, you have the palette, you know, the tools that you need, right to write songs. It was so so beneficial and great, you know, that. So this is how to do it. And I remember that I recognized songs. Now. I recognize sounds that I have heard in songs, right. Like, ah, this is how to play it. Yes. You know, and there was I think it was, yeah, to help the minister that I heard from John Berry in one of his songs, you

Bob Lawrence  44:06  
know, yeah. See? Yeah, yeah, those

Patrick Køhalmi  44:09  
are and I was like, Oh, this is how to play.

Bob Lawrence  44:11  
Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome, man. Because those are those aha moments. Right. I remember. I remember that as well going like, going like, Oh, so that's what I've been hearing. Oh, yeah. That's what they're doing. Oh, that's how they voice I get it now. Right. Those are those big aha moments. Yeah,

Patrick Køhalmi  44:30  
yes. Yes. And that was all thinking like, that's magic, you know, because I have no idea how they do it.

Bob Lawrence  44:36  
Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, I remember thinking that as well. That it was it was somehow unique to that specific musician. Right. When in all reality, wait a minute. No, this is everybody's doing this. I just, you know, yeah, yeah.

Patrick Køhalmi  44:57  
Yeah, it's just my knowledge.

Bob Lawrence  45:00  
So you were really good. You know, during our times with lessons, man, you're really good with all the paper practice if you find all that to be really beneficial for you all the all the work that you put in with mapping everything out and well, yes, yeah, very good. Excellent. So, so listen, talk about I mentioned earlier, all the gear that you have behind you, you, you have quite a recording studio that you you're doing all kinds of DAW work, mixing and mastering. And so how did how did that dimension? How did that come into play for you? Because, right, you know, I'm a jazz pianist, and I haven't even come close to getting into it to the degree or to the level that you have. In fact, I can remember asking you all kinds of questions about mixing and mastering and so forth. And, and you would, yeah, you would you would listen to, you know, some of my first podcast and text me and go, Dude, you know, you got the compressions. Horrible. You know, what if I remember that? Right? I'm like, What the hell? Was he talking about compression with that? What is that? You know?

Patrick Køhalmi  46:15  
Remember that? Yeah,

Bob Lawrence  46:17  
I can't listen to you, man. Your compression is terrible. I don't want. So but how did because that's, you know what, Patrick? That's, that's a whole different skill set. I mean, that's a whole different discipline within music. So talk, talk to us a little bit. How did that all come about?

Patrick Køhalmi  46:32  
Yeah, you know, it all comes because I wanted to write songs. And so I wrote a few songs. And I remember I had a friend who was asking me this, what kind of compression do you use? And I was like, I don't use any compression. And he was like, whoa, this sounds really good. You don't even use a compressor? And it sounds good. Yeah, he was. He was impressed, you know? And then he showed me that you can use compressors and limiters and stuff that Oh, really? Do I need that? It's beneficial if you want. Well, okay, so I was looking into it, you know, and I discovered that you when you write a song, it's not just writing a song and put it right, right, you have to make a lot of processes.

Speaker 1  47:26  
Production roll production? Yeah, the production

Patrick Køhalmi  47:29  
of it. Yeah. And it's, first you have to, like, first of all, you need to record it as as good as possible. And, and then you have to, like, mixing it, you know, and, and panning it and, you know, removing the bad frequencies, or highlighting the good frequencies, like, there's so much to do, you know, and compressing and limiters. And a lot of tools. Yeah,

Bob Lawrence  48:02  
it's a whole different. It's a whole different language. I mean, I remember getting into it, I'd asked you, I said, what, what is compression? What is limiter? What are these things? Because it was like a whole different world, you know? Yeah,

Patrick Køhalmi  48:14  
yeah. And also putting reverb. So, and I remember that, learning about all these stuff. You know, I was just saying to myself that, man, if I knew all this, I was thinking getting into songwriting. Because it's too much. It's a lot, right. Well, yeah, but it was too late for me. So I had to write to keep going. Right? Yeah. So this is how I got into it. And, yeah, well, I want to come up with a great production a great song. Well,

Bob Lawrence  48:51  
you know, that's what that's why the sound engineers, these guys that know how to mix and master. They get paid big bucks, man, because they make it sound. They take a good recording, and they make it sound phenomenal. Yeah. You know, they make they do their magic. It's Unbeliev. It's unbelievable. Right. And the technology today with you. I mean, you can set up like as as you have already has, as you have done right. You got a whole recording studio right there.

Patrick Køhalmi  49:23  
Yeah. And the funny thing about it, that, as you mentioned, with today's technology, you can produce sounds that that back in time in the 70s or 80s. It was so expensive to have all the equipment needed to get a great right. sound out of it. But today, today, you have all the plugins, yes, that are software and they can do the same.

Bob Lawrence  49:53  
That's right. You don't need the hardware. You got those plugins. Yeah, yeah,

Patrick Køhalmi  49:57  
exactly. Exactly. And the results are The same Yeah. Yeah.

Bob Lawrence  50:02  
It's crazy, isn't it?

Patrick Køhalmi  50:05  
What he's great

Bob Lawrence  50:07  
it's crazy. So um so okay so your you got your recording studio there that you're doing you're still doing you're still plugging away at the keys and playing jazz piano you got you're still doing the still doing the weightlifting you're still doing the weightlifting, right the bodybuilder still doing that. Right. And you can see but I do. Yeah. Oh yeah, I can tell you're a beast man. But but but you even have bigger news brother. You got bigger news man I can't believe it when we started chatting again. Yeah your your Is it okay for me to say you're engaged? Are you?

Patrick Køhalmi  50:47  
I have a girlfriend

Bob Lawrence  50:51  
do not let her do not let her listen. Do not let her listen to this podcast because if she hears me say engage, then she's going to put the heat on. Okay, yeah. So just remember, this is about at the 50 minute mark so she can listen to about at the 48 minute mark, you might want to cut it off right? Just

Patrick Køhalmi  51:13  
going to listen. Oh yeah, I told her about you. So.

Bob Lawrence  51:20  
Okay, so you have a girlfriend, man. I'm so happy for you, man.

Patrick Køhalmi  51:24  
Thank you. That's awesome. Amazing. So,

Bob Lawrence  51:27  
so how did the two of you meet man bodybuilders? You bodybuilders see a bodybuilder?

Patrick Køhalmi  51:32  
No, no? No. But when we met through the internet,

Bob Lawrence  51:36  
okay. Yeah. Through dating a dating app? Yes.

Patrick Køhalmi  51:39  
Do you think? Yeah. And yeah, you know, the first date was amazing. And the second day, it was even better. And we both knew from second day that okay, it's going to be us.

That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

And from that moment, like, we were together ever since.

Bob Lawrence  52:04  
Yeah. So obviously on the app, you were truthful, you didn't say anything? Like I have a full head of hair. You know, so that when she showed up and saw YouTube what Wait a minute, man?

Patrick Køhalmi  52:18  
No, no, not at all. Okay. Actually all amazing chemistry through the text messages. Okay. Great, you know, and we were actually afraid that it is going to be as good in real life as it is in text messages. Right? Right. That was the excitement, you know, but we had to take the chance. Yeah. And it showed that it's even better in

Bob Lawrence  52:43  
life. Oh, very good, man. Awesome. Now, by any chance. Is she a musician? Does she play music? No play piano or any instrument?

Patrick Køhalmi  52:50  
You won't believe this. But she she can actually she has talent.

Bob Lawrence  52:54  
Very good man.

Patrick Køhalmi  52:55  
She she learned to play on the Aquila. Okay.

Bob Lawrence  53:02  
Yeah. She's pretty good. Yeah. Is she? Is she from Denmark? Is she a native there?

Patrick Køhalmi  53:09  
She moved to Denmark. I think he was three years old or something. Okay. She's from Vietnam.

Bob Lawrence  53:17  
Okay, okay, fantastic. Okay, awesome. Awesome. So hey, man, I told you I'm doing I'm doing the whole sauna thing then I tell you I'm doing the whole sauna and cold plunge stuff man. Tell you that. No, yeah. Oh yeah. I've taken fitness to a whole new level brother I got I got a sauna that that I do every day and I got that I'm doing that cold punch stuff you know we we just go jump you just go you just go jump in the ocean what you do there you know or whatever you know

Patrick Køhalmi  53:48  
the ocean here that's not gonna happen

Bob Lawrence  53:54  
it's cold with calm and that's it. You don't do the cold plunge man. No hate.

Patrick Køhalmi  54:03  
The sauna is great.

Unknown Speaker  54:04  
Heat. Good. Cold. Not so good. Right. You know, that actually

Patrick Køhalmi  54:09  
evidence for this? That says and I know that many great athletes doing this cold bath. Yes. Right. But there have been study about it when it comes to bodybuilding. Muscle growth

Bob Lawrence  54:24  
that I've heard that I've heard you heard that? Yes. I've heard that. Yes. That you got to be careful because that could be actually stifle it if you if you're if your intentions are muscle gains, right,

Patrick Køhalmi  54:35  
then then it's not a good thing you have Right, right. Yeah.

Bob Lawrence  54:39  
Yeah. So So I got out the after. Maybe I have to pay attention to that man. So Okay. All right. So look, what are some of the what, what are some of the tidbits what are some of the advice that you would give to folks that are just getting started with Jazz, Jazz Piano? What are some of the do's and don'ts and tips that you would give listeners right now to help them with their journey?

Patrick Køhalmi  55:11  
I would probably say that the most important thing is to be hungry. Yeah. For knowledge. Be open minded. Yeah, and and never think. Never think that you are good enough?

Bob Lawrence  55:38  
Yeah, yeah, you know, I think you would, I would I think you would agree. The studying of jazz piano is a very humbling process. Right. Yeah, it is indeed a very humbling process. So, yeah. So,

Patrick Køhalmi  55:55  
so. So yes,

Bob Lawrence  55:58  
I think Be patient, be patient, be patient, we have to be in your ear. Right? Because it's not an overnight. It's like, I tried to tell every student I work right. Where I work with I try to explain to him like, look, this is not an overnight process that and to be quite honest with you. It's a lifetime process. I mean, it's something that's, it's ongoing forever, right? Yeah.

Patrick Køhalmi  56:19  
And it's the same that bodybuilding or fitness. Yeah, same thing you have to maintain. Yeah.

Bob Lawrence  56:25  
Well, and, and honestly, that's what I think attracts me to disciplines like this, like music or, or to fitness is because it's not like putting a model airplane together, where you put it together, and then you go, Okay, well, it's done. Now, what do I do? You know, it's always something there's always something to be learning. There's always something to be studying, there's always something to be applying. Working on. The goals are, are always increasing. You know? To me, that's what's exciting about the study of of jazz or the fitness world for that matter. Yes,

Patrick Køhalmi  57:03  
yes. So it is a lifestyle. It is indeed. And I remember that, like many people are asking, Can you play the piano? So and when when can you play the piano? I mean, when can you say that I can actually play the piano is when you can play a song to song, you know. And it's like, it's the same thing, like, as an example. Just because you can sing a song in German. If you have learned to sing a song in German, that doesn't mean that you can speak German. And, and it's the same with the piano. Just because you can play a song on the piano. That doesn't mean that you are a piano player or pianist. No, I told you need you need to understand the basics. The theory. Yeah, yeah. Just the language. Yeah. So you can create sentences? Yeah.

Bob Lawrence  58:05  
Well, you know, it's funny that you say that because a gentleman that I that I work with right now that I teach. His name is Mike. Mike knows who Mike's listening right now. So he knows I'm talking about it. But he came into my office and first thing he did was play a song for me. And I said to him after he got done playing the song, I said, Well, that's really good. Mike. I said, you know how to play a song. I said, Now, I'll teach you how to play the piano. You know? And that's what Yeah, and that's what you're getting at. There's a there's a big difference, right? Yes. Yeah. And that's why I put that's why, and this is a great way for us to wrap things up, Patrick, that is why I put such emphasis on skill development. Because if you practice the skills that are necessary to play jazz piano, you're actually learning 1000s of songs. Simultaneously, you're, you're learning the content, that the songs are made up of the data. And so you want to approach learning the skills so that you can actually play not a song? Not two songs. Right, but hundreds and hundreds and 1000s of songs. That's how that's how you want to study.

Patrick Køhalmi  59:17  
Yes, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So and this is this is the same, like, when you can speak German or Indian languages, you can create sentences, right? That giving meaning? Yeah, and the same with piano, you can create melodies, right? That's, yeah. Making Sense. Yes.

Bob Lawrence  59:38  
That yeah, that are logical that the pleasing to the ear, right. Exactly. Yeah. So Well, listen, man, we could probably ramble on all day. Well, I know we can because we have. So you know, many times we get together and we can ramble on all day. But Patrick, I can't. I can't express my gratitude. tude for you coming on jazz panel skills and sharing, sharing yourself carving time out of your schedule and sharing your your gifts and your time and your talent and your thoughts with the jazz panel skills listeners. It's so nice to see you again, brother, man. It's so it's so yeah, it's so good to connect with you again. And we're gonna have to do it soon. And if I'm telling you right now, right now, man, I'm going on record right now. Yeah, if this young lady you ended up proposing to her. And you guys are gonna get in you get married. I'm on the next plane. I'm coming. I'm coming to that wedding. Man. I'm going to be there. We're

Patrick Køhalmi  1:00:38  
going to send you an invitation for sure. The whole family.

Bob Lawrence  1:00:45  
Let me let me tell you something right now, Patrick, you do not want the whole family. I just I'm just say I'm just saving. You want this to be a really nice event. You do not want the whole large family there. I'm just telling you. All right. All right, brother. Hey, Patrick. Thank you so much. And we'll be back in touch here soon. And, and I'll have you back on pianos jazz piano skills again soon, too.

Patrick Køhalmi  1:01:14  
Thank you, too. It was a pleasure to be here.

Bob Lawrence  1:01:18  
Thank you, Patrick.